Sober Boozers Club
The Sober Boozers Club Podcast is brought to you by Ben Gibbs - Alcoholic. Since 2022 Ben has been sourcing and enjoying the best alcohol free beer the world has to offer and has been documenting these beverages during his sobriety journey. Ben has worked alongside craft breweries, bottle shops and sober activists to raise awareness of Grey Area Drinking and to help spread the word on the growing market that is AF/NA beverages, becoming the face of the Alcohol Free Beer Club and featuring on many podcasts, as well as securing a number of features on BBC Radio. In 2024 Ben became the first alcoholic in active recovery to win a British Guild Of Beer Writers award for commentary on beer. This podcast features experts from the Beer world, as well as Alcohol Free breweries and sober activists as we explore the world of Alcohol Free beer and sobriety.
Sober Boozers Club
From Frat House to Alcohol-Free: One Man's Journey with Non-Alcoholic Beer
Bridging the Atlantic in pursuit of great alcohol-free beer, this episode brings together two passionate advocates from the growing global NA beer community. We're joined by NA Brewskey, essentially "the American version of me," as our host puts it—though notably younger and with superior social media skills!
NA Brewskey shares his surprisingly recent journey into non-alcoholic beer, having only started in February 2023 after just five years of drinking craft beer. What makes his story compelling is how he maintained his identity as "the craft beer guy" by discovering the growing world of non-alcoholic options. "When I stopped drinking, I didn't want to lose that community because I really liked craft beer," he explains, highlighting how NA beer allowed him to preserve what he loved about beer culture without the alcohol.
The conversation offers fascinating insights into the rapidly evolving American NA beer market. From describing how beer festival attendees initially dismissed alcohol-free options to now actively seeking them out, we witness the cultural shift happening in real-time. Both hosts reflect on how the pandemic potentially accelerated this movement, creating a moment of collective reassessment about our relationship with alcohol.
We dive deep into the practical aspects of championing NA beer—from organizing events and building brand relationships to managing the peculiar challenges of content creation (including the universal problem of separate fridges for "content beers" versus everyday drinking beers). The genuine excitement when discussing top American recommendations like Go Brewing's Banana Pancake Porter and Best Day's Kolsch is infectious and educational for anyone looking to explore new options.
What resonates most throughout is the shared mission of building community around alcohol-free beer. As NA Brewskey puts it, "It makes sobriety not seem so fucking lonely." Whether you're sober-curious, fully alcohol-free, or simply interested in expanding your beverage horizons, this episode celebrates how good beer brings people together—regardless of alcohol content.
To find out more about the wonderful world of alcohol free beer and to check in with me head to www.instagram.com/sober_boozers_club
This episode is not brought to you by any sponsors because nobody wants to sponsor me.
This is the Sober Boozers Club podcast. This podcast, we're going to talk to people from within these circles and find out a little bit about their journey, so you sit back, relax and enjoy. Today's guest is special because he is basically the American version of me, except for he is significantly younger and probably a lot better at social media. I'm talking to the chap known as the NA Brewski who runs the NA Beer Club over in the States, you know, like the AF Beer Club but all American.
Speaker 2:Anyway, we thought we should probably have a chat.
Speaker 3:How you doing, man, Good how you doing. It's good to talk to you again.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's good to talk to you. The time difference is wild. This might be my biggest time difference yet difference yet, I think, in terms of time zones. Oh, we had a mr reducer holic on recently. I think he's like an hour an hour before you are now. Is this something I know? This is the latest I've been up to do one of these, so it's, it's nice. Actually feels like a nice relaxing end to my day huh, yeah, that's pretty cool.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I, I always forget that. I always forget that. I always forget that people have different like times over this and stuff, and when I'm, you know, emailing or or dming or texting, it's always like you know, I send a message and it's like 10 pm for me, but for them it's like am and I have to like wait to get back.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I get that with the, with the na group chat. I wake up and it's like, wow, this is popped off of it and it's like, wow, this has popped off over there. It's like, wait, no, it's just like normal talking for normal people over that side of the sea. So, yeah, that's the shackles that we are bound by with this global beer industry that we find ourselves in. You have been championing NA. We're going to call it NA because I'm going to be polite instead of F.
Speaker 2:You've been championing NA beer for quite some time now. How did it all begin for you? Were you always aware of alcohol-free beer as an option, or was it something that has always interested you, or was it something that you kind of stumbled?
Speaker 3:upon I to be quite honest, I actually haven't even been drinking beer that that long. I'm I'm 25, so I started. I didn't even start drinking beer until college after 21, of course, no, but no. So I, I really liked craft beer. I was really getting into it during college and I joined a frat.
Speaker 3:And then you know how that story goes and basically, like, when I stopped drinking, um, I discovered non-alcoholic beer and I was like, wow, this is really cool because you know, when I stopped drinking, I didn't want, you know, craft beer was kind of like my whole thing. I was like the craft beer guy. Um, so I didn't want to lose that identity. Um it, it felt like I was kind of losing a community because I really liked craft beer. I love the community, I love the styles, I love the colors and the beer head and everything involved in it.
Speaker 3:But when I stopped drinking, when I discovered non-alcoholic beer, I was like, wow, this is awesome. And for the next year or so I was really getting into it. I started discovering new options and I kind of just felt like this is something everyone needs to know about because it's an option there and, granted, it's a lot harder to kind of sell it to typical craft beer lovers, because I know myself and if I would have been brought non-alcoholic beer when I was mid-drinking, probably laughed it out of the room and like that's what's the point. You know what I mean. So I kind of get when people say that, but like I just feel like you know, there are definitely people out there who are who have gone through what I went through and are going through different experiences, and just having it accessible is something that I hope to continue to do. I've just wanted to make it as accessible as possible.
Speaker 2:How long ago was it that you stopped drinking and switched to alcohol-free? How many years are we talking here?
Speaker 3:2023 in February. So I'd been really only drinking craft beer since 2018 maybe. So I only had like five years under my belt. That's a, that's a young age.
Speaker 2:Five years, that's a young age, though, to to decide to stop drinking and to then make that kind of lifestyle choice to go. Actually, I really enjoy this and I'm gonna pursue it in other ways. Hence alcohol, alcohol-free beer. But you know that's a pretty early age to think actually, no, this isn't serving me. Alcohol Like I'm going to stop doing it, especially if you've gotten into beer. Like I mean, it took me fucking too many years to decide to stop drinking alcohol, beer. So, like, fair play to you for that. Like that's a big decision to make at a young age.
Speaker 3:Yeah, people say that, but it's also like I feel like it was easier for me to do that than it is for somebody who's been drinking beer for 10, 20 years. You know what I mean. Yeah, it sounds like wow, that's really impressive. But again, I didn't really have that many years under my belt. So for me it was like you know, realistically there's no difference between non-alcoholic beer and alcoholic beer, because the only difference is the alcohol, and I don't want the alcohol. So it just felt like a natural progression. Yeah, there's really no change here. It didn't feel like a big change, you know what I mean, because I'd only been drinking for less than you know a fifth of my life.
Speaker 2:So so really, let's put it like that it makes. It makes a lot of sense. Like I think there's a stereotypical view of someone that decides to stop drinking alcohol for whatever reason, like not necessarily for alcoholism, but for any, any form of lifestyle choice. You say, oh, I've decided to stop drinking, and immediately you think of somebody sipping something from a brown paper bag, with really scruffy clothes and doesn't really have their shit together.
Speaker 2:I think there is a stigma attached to the act of not drinking. That is just a bit. It's a little bit dated, to be honest, especially when you, I think, when you go into this world and you start meeting people from all walks of life that are enjoying living alcohol-free be that from time to time or be that all the time you kind of go. Oh, actually, there's a whole spectrum here of people that are not drinking for whatever reason, and, of course, alcohol-free beer, which is what we're here to talk about, kind of allows people to live their lives without missing out on things that they enjoy, and I think that's a wonderful thing. What was the NA beer scene like in the States in 2023 when you stopped drinking alcohol and switched to NA beers?
Speaker 3:I mean it was still growing. I mean Athletic was everywhere At the time. Braavis was everywhere. It was Athletic Braavis Wellbeing. I don't know if you know. I know you knowvis well-being. I don't know if you know what I know. You know athletic, but I don't know if you know the other ones I know of them.
Speaker 2:I think I've had a bravis. I feel like george sent me one from mash gang, but I might have that wrong. It might have been someone else. Someone has sent me one before, yeah it was.
Speaker 3:It was like those at the time that I knew of. And then, you know, guinness zero was everywhere. Heineken zero has been everywhere for too long. It was very. I've essentially seen the explosion of non-alcoholic craft beer for my time to start starting to drink it to now, like I've witnessed the entire thing. So it's a. I'm very lucky that I got in when I did, um, because it's, you know, it's a. I'm very lucky that I got in when I did because it's, you know, it's not only allowed me to explore new options every single day, but it's allowed me to be like one of those people that is really trying to push that new stuff to people. It's not me kind of catching up Not that there's anything wrong with that but it relatively was like pretty, you know, unheardheard of unappreciated um.
Speaker 3:You know I started doing events last year and at the events you know, back in, you know, when I did the german beer fest, it was earlier in the year and people just didn't did not appreciate it, nor like it, nor find it to be interesting or be seeking it out and there. And then same thing with, like, the Philly Beer Fest. And then I went to the same events a year later and, like everyone is interested in drinking it, seeking it out, all of the other vendors, like the alcoholic craft brewery vendors, are coming to us to drink during the festivals. So it's like wow, you know what I mean. Like wow, what a change. So it was relatively relative again, relatively new. People didn't know about it. You know, we were also just coming out of covid, so it, I think, I mean realistically, I think that had a ton to do with the global shift sort of away from alcohol, because I mean, I don't know what everyone else did, but that's all I did was drink. There was nothing. It was what are we doing tonight? Well, what do you think we're doing tonight? There's nothing else to do, and it's you know.
Speaker 3:And then, after COVID, it was like all right time to get back to reality. Wow, now I've, you know, gained a ton of weight. I can only think of drinking. I don't have any personality, I don't have any. You know I'm not saying this is for everyone, but this is kind of how I felt, and I know a lot of people around me felt is that we just lost ourselves. I lost myself with alcohol. That's what happened and it's, you know, everyone's different. Everyone can like, some people can moderate and some people can't, and but, but also, you know, in general it's just a. I'm not anti-alcohol or anything, but I I personally believe society would be a little better off if it wasn't shoved down our throats all the time. People can drink it, but it's everywhere. It's everywhere in ads, in commercials and at the bar.
Speaker 2:Every single napkin dispenser and holder and bottle opener is branded and it's just crazy how it's so ingrained in what we do you don't realize, do you, until you kind of start to take stock of it and then you think back to what big tobacco was like years and years ago and then you see the similarities with big alcohol and like the thing I don't understand is like big alcohol-owning, alcohol-awareness charities. It's like what this is. Is no one seeing this? Because you know, I'm very much the same. I'm not anti-alcohol, I'm pro-beer in all forms of beer. Like there's a big campaign going at the moment to make cask beer in the UK like a living heritage. I think that absolutely should be, because I think it's really important.
Speaker 2:I think beer and alcohol are wonderful for people that can enjoy them safely. I just can't do that and there's a lot of people that can't and there's a lot of people that would really benefit from it not being such a pivotal part of society and I feel like people don't want alcohol as much as they're led to believe that they do. I think we're seeing, with the improving options that are available, people are going for them. When you start looking at the alcohol-free taps in pubs and you start taking notice of them, you see more and more people going up and having an alcohol-free beer and so, okay, people are drinking this and it's people you wouldn't expect to drink it. So there is a demand there which has been really interesting to see. Similar to you, I kind of have grown into my sobriety as the kind of boom of alcohol-free beer has taken place in the UK. So it's like I got very lucky. I got on the bus just as it was leaving the station. I didn't have to live through the days of bex blue or nothing.
Speaker 2:I was kind of mash gang are already starting to do things over here and yeah, literally so it's like, oh, it's a good time to stop drinking, but just purely coincidental. But you know it's. It's been very fortunate and it's. It's nice to see this community of commentators kind of grow year on year, like new people coming into the fold and talking about alcohol-free beer and the people that you meet in doing it. I mean, you're all over the place. You do so many events and things. How did that all start for you? Was it just through sheer persistence, like myself? Yeah.
Speaker 3:Well, like events and stuff, yeah, I mean persistence. It's actually very funny. I keep an email in my drafts always and that email was the first email I ever wanted to send to a brand asking if I could rep them in Philadelphia. And I never sent the email because I just didn't know, I don't know what happened. I just kind of felt weird about I just didn't, I didn't know. I kind of got I don't know what happened, I just kind of felt weird about it, didn't know if it was going to work and just never sent it.
Speaker 3:I did get reached out to by somebody named her name's Heather Ransom, and she runs a company called Zero Proof Go which is essentially like non-alcoholic consulting and like events, activations and stuff like that, and she asked me if I wanted to come do the Philly beer, the German beer fest, with her and I was like, yeah, let's do it. And we went and then I was like, wow, that's really cool. And so I started doing local barbershop events. I would just take, you know, a six pack of different beers that I had either been sent or like I bought and just wanted to set up like little, little activations and I essentially had the bottle shop like pay me to do it, but it was like it was a very small amount and then I would also do other events for like free and stuff. I mean I just wanted to really get out there. But then go brewing reached out to me and was like hey, we're, you know, launching this sort of like retail ambassador position. It's where you can essentially like place product and get paid for it and then also like you can compliment that sales stuff with events. And I was like cool and I tried to do some sales stuff. I, I'm not a salesperson, I'm a marketer. So I just it wasn't necessarily that I wasn't like good at it or anything, I just didn't really make the time to do it because in my mind it was like I'm not going to go spend five hours in the city bringing samples, talking to bar managers that don't want to talk to me. Like it just didn't appeal to me.
Speaker 3:But I did like start talking to a few places that were like interested in events and a couple festivals came up and I started doing those because Go really like was interested in getting to the events with like distributors at it or like other retailers that we could place product at. So it kind of like went hand in hand and then I just like really loved the event so much and was getting such positive feedback and was so tuned into what events are going on and when that they essentially just said you know, run with it, just do the events, send us what you're interested in doing, go do it. They set me up with like a sales guy who was going to like place product and then also compliment that and send me over to do events. So that kind of happened. And then I got reached out to by my, my friend, john, who runs nation beer. You know him and he's he's doing like a. He has a company that he connects brands. They're looking for activators and people that are willing to activate. And he set me up with all the bitter, which is a non-alcoholic cocktail bitters and essentially like he wanted me to do samplings.
Speaker 3:But I was like I'm kind of the beer guy. You know what I mean, can I do beer? And you know they were like, well, you know we usually use sparkling water because we don't want to, we don't want the bitters to be out flavored and stuff like that. And I was like you know what? Like I'll still do it, I want the experience, but I don't know if this can be an ongoing thing. I then talked to Ian Blessing of All the Bitter he's an awesome guy, by the way and he basically said, like you know what, let's do it, let's try the beer. And I was like, yes, awesome.
Speaker 3:So now I have an event series that I do at all the local bottle shops. It's like a rotating, so every month it's once a month at the different bottle shops around me that I pair bitters and beer and it actually worked so well, like the first event that I did, we sold almost the entire stock at the store and it was like, wow, I didn't even I didn't expect this. I wasn't trying to sell it, I was just trying to sample it. So that really like showed me that there's a way to uniquely position anything if it relates back to my brand and have the passion from what I do come out in everything. Like getting unique, just unique ideas around my brand is like a great way to sort of push and you know, push product, which isn't the end goal, but like just generally raise awareness for the scene.
Speaker 3:So that was cool. So I just started doing that and then, yeah, I've just done a ton of stuff with Go. I do have some events going up where I'm kind of repping my own brand and just getting a lineup. It's allowed me to like it's not all about the money, but it's allowed me to like invest a lot more in myself, like making some money off of this, and then also allow me to host events, you know, on my own, for free, just because I'd love to do awareness stuff. That's the end goal of it. I'd love to do awareness stuff.
Speaker 2:That's the end goal of it.
Speaker 2:Well, that's the thing, isn't it?
Speaker 2:It's nice to be able to earn from it because it's kind of to talk about alcohol-free beer consistently you have to buy a lot of alcohol-free beer, because that is the downside of the kind of boom that we're experiencing.
Speaker 2:It seems like every other week there's a new beer and it's like you've got to buy all of that, and then quite often you've got to buy all of that and then quite often you've got to buy six packs or four packs. You can't just buy a single can because that doesn't justify the shipping. So it's kind of like to get a little bit back. It's like, okay, well, this is going into beer primarily, you know, and like and other things, because it is you get into it to raise awareness, but it's like you can't do that for free, which really sucks, but it just is. It's just the way of the world, isn't it? So you know it's it, and it's also nice to be able to earn just doing something that you but you love and what you're really into like I can tell just talking to you, you got, you got the bug really early on for it, like it's.
Speaker 3:You wouldn't be doing all of this shit if not exactly and one of the cool things too is I don't know if you know this um, tiny little plug here but, um, I'm working with na beer club, I know you work with af beer club, so kind of similarities there.
Speaker 3:But uh, we're launching like a marketplace soon where, you know, the normal thing is like it's a monthly subscription that you just get like 10 or you get five pairs of of non-alcoholic beer, um, like random and you don't know. But, like, what we're now launching is a marketplace where you can build your own like 12 pack of single beers. So you can get 12 single beers and kind of our model that I'm trying to work on right now is sort of you know, utilize this community of like influencers and creators and like, offer them a way to, you know, keep their their content up with, you know, 12 new beers a month without having to like spend all this money. You know discounts and affiliate codes and stuff like that. So I'm still trying to get that together. But that's, yeah, I, I saw, you know, I saw, I saw the problem for myself. Yeah, how am I going to keep this up? So that's like I'm trying to, you know, inject something into the community that allows another builder box, like if.
Speaker 2:If I find a site with with a builder box, it's like yes, thank you so much. It's music to my ears, the with the builder boxes. Often in the UK you've got websites that have like a really good core range, like wholesalers that just sell alcohol-free beer, not like breweries and etc. If you've got a new beer that's just been released and you're someone like me, I'm like I'm buying this right now. Like right now, I'm buying this. Like a brewery, um below bruco over here, just dropped a new beer. I was like I could wait for like a couple of weeks and it'll be on one of these websites and I'll be able to put it in a random box. But like no, I just ordered a fucking six-pack. Because of course I did, because I've got to be addicted to something right, but I was going to get on to the um, to the na beer club. Like how did? How did that all come around? Because you click on your profile url on instagram and it's like fucking hell. Like what aren't you doing at the moment, which is great?
Speaker 3:like I'm here for it, man, but like my god, you must be stretched yeah, honestly, I I've subscribed myself to the life that I'd rather be exhausted than depressed and I know, and I know how that sounds and it's like I do find that if I keep myself busy there's really no time to get in my own head about things, which, you know it also leads to burnout occasionally. You know what I mean. Your body will take the rest it needs, but that's something that I'm always trying to, you know, work on. But, yeah, na Beer Club it needs, but that's something that I'm always trying to work on. But, yeah, na Beer Club.
Speaker 3:Essentially, I knew Mark, who owns NA Beer Club, through the chats or whatever. When we started that chat I'd been talking to him for a while and I do social media. I mean, I do marketing for a living, so social media is sort of one of my strong suits. So he reached out and he's like, hey, would you be interested in managing my socials? And I was like, yeah, sure, why not? So sign onto a contract, kept that updated. And then he sort of moved me towards. He's like, hey, like I'm actually going to move you like to blog posting and like website admin, cause that's kind of where the money comes in, the you know, 95% of the income comes in Um, and then, um, you know we're working on right now, um, I, I would love to, you know I might be, you know, helping kind of take over some of the business.
Speaker 3:Um, you know, get some equity in it and and and launch, and I'm, you know, partnering him to launch the marketplace. So, like the marketplace is my sort of my baby. You know he's helping, you know he's doing the setup with the website and stuff like that, but I'm handling, like all of the marketing and stuff like that. Um, so it's given me it's a really awesome experience to like launch something so big and, like you know, build a business even though any brewski is kind of a business but it's not, I'm more of just an individual there Um, so that that's kind of how that came about. How did it come about with the AF Beer Club for you?
Speaker 2:Someone left. It's as simple as that. Mine was really, so I was just talking about alcohol-free beer on Instagram, I mean. So my page started as like a sobriety awareness page. Really, the reason I set it up was partially to connect with people that looked like me, that were sober because I didn't know anybody that looked like me that were sober, because I didn't know anybody that looked like me and was like, in there, I just turned 30 or I was on the cusp of turning 30 when I got sober and it was like I went to a few like AA meetings and they just weren't for me. It was like this is, this is lovely and I'm really glad this exists, but this isn't my tribe. Really glad this exists, but this isn't my tribe. You know, I was like there must be people that are, like you know, younger and like kind of into the things that I'm into, that are also going on this journey. So I was like where can I instagram? That'll be my place.
Speaker 2:So I found a few like sober accounts on instagram and alcohol free beer had been something that I'd kind of I'd been using it when I was trying to pretend that I was moderating to people back when I was in like my denial phase. It was like, oh no, look, I'm on alcohol free tonight. But then I'd go out and get really fucked up afterwards, um, and I kind of thought, right, let's try that again. Like that would be good. This is how little I knew about alcohol-free beer. I thought that the 0.5 percent was enough to give me just just to take the edge off, which is absolute bollocks. But that's what I thought at the time. You know, I knew nothing.
Speaker 2:So set up the page, found some like martin dixon, alcohol-free world he was the first person that I came across and another guy who had a website and I can't remember their name because they're not very active anymore and that's awful of me. But I found these two accounts and just started talking about beer and it kind of went from there, really got to know people and people seemed to enjoy the videos I was doing, for whatever reason. So then then with the Alcohol-Free Beer Club, robin was the guy who set it up and he teamed up with Wise Bartender, who are a kind of wholesale supplier of alcohol-free beers to customers, to consumers, but they do a lot of distribution for breweries as well. He set up like a thing with them where they basically took care of the distribution, the website, handling all of that business. And then he decided to stop doing it.
Speaker 2:I've got no idea why, but it was just too much for him. So he stepped down and they asked people to put videos in to kind of pitch why they should do it. I remember that and I only found out about this because about six or seven people tagged me in the post and said you should do this. I was like, oh yeah, I probably should. I could do that anyway, these videos.
Speaker 2:It's just what I'm doing. So yeah, we'll do that. And then it went to a public vote and I was like what the fuck is this about? And it was me and someone called Abby and she is brewforecast on Instagram and she was similar. She I don't I don't really know her, but I know of her. She stopped drinking alcohol a little while back I don't know if it was just for a little while or if it was full-time but switched to kind of talking about alcohol-free beers and we were kind of neck and neck for a while.
Speaker 2:And then someone that I work with because I work in a shopping tv for context, like qvc style stuff one of the presenters at work mentioned it on air and said, oh, ben's in this competition, and like about 2 000 people came in and voted for it and it was just like shit. So it was a. Yeah, I don't know if I would have won. I don't know. I've got no idea, but I hate those competitions. I shouldn't really be saying this because I'm still working for them, but I hate them because it just becomes like messaging people, getting people to vote. It's like man. This reminds me of being in Battle of the Bands at high school. It's that kind of level and I was like I don't really want to do this, this whole competition thing.
Speaker 2:But then it was like it would be really cool to do the beer club. Like it felt like a real win to be recognized for it. You know, that was a really fucking long story and it didn't need to be, but yeah, that's how it happened with me. That's cool, yeah, yeah. But it's cool to just be able to be like oh, I've given X amount of people these beers this month and when people love them it's like, oh, cool, nice. Like, if for nothing else, it just solidifies the belief I have that alcoferee beer is really good, because there still are people that think it's shit, which is like I don't understand how we solve that. I don't know if it's just time and availability, yeah, it's a. Which is like I don't understand how we, how we solve that. I don't know if it's just time and availability, yeah it's a shame really.
Speaker 3:I think people will think what they want. And you're right about like when I, you know, when I see at a beer festival, I clearly see somebody who's like, you can kind of tell who's like really in the craft. Like they're just like yeah, and then they come up and they're like that's pretty good. It's like yeah, it is, isn't it? That's awesome, like you know, and it's it's kind of like, and then they move on and it's like cool yeah, there was a real turning point for me.
Speaker 2:Um, like last year, so 2024, I suddenly found a lot of like real beer people following me, like proper beer accounts, um, people like grizzly beers and we've got the um, the salford cans club in the uk, and people like that were following me and actually talking to me and being like oh what, what would you, what ones would you recommend? Or sharing pictures of beers. I mean like this is really good. And that's when in my brain I kind of went right, all right, we're making moves here, like the industry as a whole. I've done fuck all you know, but alcohol-free beer is doing things. Compared to like the first multi-pack I ever got, I'd be interested to know actually what was. Do you remember the first NA beer that you had, like either when you were drinking alcohol and then after you decided to stop drinking alcohol? What was it for you and what? What was that experience like?
Speaker 3:yeah. So I actually always attribute my first non-alcoholic beer to um, the athletic all-out stout. However, when I started to really think about it, when I was in my fraternity beta theta pi one of, I actually had two littles.
Speaker 3:I don't know if you know how frat culture works, but you get like a lit like you have a big who's like kind of your mentor and then you have a little who's like you mentor okay, I've never heard of that even in the films so like I actually had two littles and my second little was Muslim, so when we were taking a day trip up to New York just to go see a comedy show and just to hang out, when I found out that he couldn't drink alcohol, I actually went and bought him a six pack of Budweiser Zero in the bottles. And when we actually got to New Yorkork he found out that he actually couldn't drink them because they do have a little bit of alcohol in them. And so me and my buddy just drank them on the steps of the at new york and yeah, that was it. I was like no, this isn't that bad. I didn't really think anything else of it until I made the decision to stop drinking fully.
Speaker 3:And then I went to uh monk's cafe in Philly and I had a couple of beers and one of them was the was the first one. Was that athletic, all out style? And I was like, wow, this is pretty good.
Speaker 2:So yeah, Wow, and then, since then, hundreds and hundreds of beers.
Speaker 3:Yeah, presumably it's a new one every day pretty much.
Speaker 3:Right, presumably it's a new one every day. Pretty much right? Yeah, pretty much is. And to go back to your point about like having to buy stuff all the time, I I consider myself a little bit fortunate in that because there's so many brands coming out and because I'm like sort of more well known in the industry now, I have brands always hitting me up to send me product, even like the brands I've worked with in the past. They'll put a new beer out and they'll send me new ones. So I've been fortunate enough that I haven't had to pay for too much, which is why I like to like.
Speaker 3:That also offers me the ability to, if I like, need an extra brand for like an event.
Speaker 3:I'm not, you know, most of the time I'll hit up a brand and I'll ask them if they want to send samples for the event, but then I'll just grab like a six pack that I have off the shelf that somebody sent me a little bit ago and I'll just bring that to the event. So I try to, and anytime I do have product that goes out of date more than I would like to, would like it to. So whenever that happens, when I know it's like coming up on like it's always safe, but when it's coming up on like all right, I should really kind of either drink this or get rid of it. I always hit up my community and I'm like, hey, I'm in philly, like I'll either be around, I can drop stuff off or you can come pick it up. I try to give out as much as I possibly can because I don't want to see it go to waste yeah, my friends send me like pictures of their fridges full of my like hand-me-downs yeah, it's like it's I mean I love it.
Speaker 2:I love it when, when people send stuff, I mean it's like sometimes it's like shit, there's 30, 32 cans here. Yeah, I've already got 40 cans plus and then I've got to talk about these ones. I mean I feel like if, if breweries send me something and it's like, okay, I want to push that to the top of the pile. But like I found a video a couple of weeks ago of like a brewery that sent me beer like six months ago, and I was like, fuck, I forgot about that. Fuck, I felt so bad Like I messaged her. I was just like I'm really sorry, like I really enjoyed it, but it's just been in my phone Because it is like I mean it's, yeah, my recycling bin. It's like like I've got really good at flat, flat packing boxes, because it's like I'll buy stuff and then I'll forget that I've got brand sending me stuff and it's like, oh, I didn't need to. Like it's. I mean it's wonderful, it's, it's great, but you know it's it's good marketing for for these breweries like we. We talk about it all the time. You know, I wanted to talk about your thing like send it. That would be lovely.
Speaker 2:I saw an interesting thing recently about brands starting to now like not give opportunities, like partnership opportunities, to people that are sober, even with, like alcohol-free products rejected from a from an opportunity because they were sober, because this brand was worried that it kind of narrows the potential of their product. That I thought was just really backwards. It's like, oh, we're gonna sell this vegan cheese, but we're not gonna let vegans talk about it, we're gonna let like, just like meat eaters or vegetarians talk about it instead. It was like what? I didn't understand that, but it's kind of like it backs up a little theory that I got that as the alcohol-free market continues to grow, it's actually going to kind of restrict itself at the same time, because I think there's going to be, there's going to be five or six real winners from this in terms of breweries that are going to do really well. They're just going to be everywhere.
Speaker 2:I think, in time, there's a potential that, like, the smaller breweries are just not gonna be around and doing it anymore, which is scary. I mean, I don't know if that's gonna happen. It's just kind of a theory I've got because everything is terrible in my pessimistic outlook of life, but I am. I'm seeing it over here in bars. It's like cool, these guys do like alcohol-free stuff. That's awesome. That's awesome. And even now, like the stuff on tap that they used to do is like they still have a tap, but it's like a slightly worse beer than it was a year ago and it's like, oh, okay, it's cheaper. I know that's cheaper, that's why you're doing it. So it's like that's that's something that scares me no, you're right and I it's definitely not.
Speaker 3:I mean, it's a it's a well thought out theory and I think we're going to see that because you know I've been saying this for a while. It's inherently what we do. You're right. The harder we promote it and the more people that sign on to it, the less people that are drinking craft beer in the first place, which inherently, like the entire NA industry, is built off of the alcohol industry. That's just a fact. So, and most people that drink non-alcoholic beer I would say at least 95% more drank alcoholic beer. Like it's not just, it's an acquired taste, it's not just something you jump right into and you have a non-alcoholic beer and it's like, wow, this is the best thing ever. Chances are you're just not going to drink beer. No-transcript functional and they still provides intoxicating effects, which is also why that I'm getting into that industry too. But, yeah, you're right, inherently like, the more that we like I promote it, the less people in the future that would be more interested in it. So it's like, yeah, it's sort of self-cannibalizing in a way.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I completely agree with you.
Speaker 1:And shelf space.
Speaker 3:Shelf space is a huge thing too. There's no more shelf space at these big chains. Total Wine more. They have a whole aisle to it and they're not going to dedicate anymore. The brands that are good are going to stay and the brands that aren't good are going to be replaced by new brands. So yeah, you're right, little breweries and small breweries and brewers with not a lot of capital, they're not going to be around very much.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and it's sad because there's a lot of absolute bangers that are out there. It's like if I could get this at my supermarket, I'd drink this every day of the week. It's just the nature of the world, isn't it? That's just economics, which is a whole other thing, especially at the moment. My God, things are about to get a lot more expensive in terms of getting beer from places. I've been trying to figure out a way to get a steady flow of US beer over here. I've kind of gone all right. I'm just gonna stop thinking about that now yeah, because I'll just depress myself I.
Speaker 2:It's sad I had a beer today from that. Someone brought me back from japan. There was um asahi beery it was called. I was like that's a fucking weird name beery. When I drank I was like that's a fucking weird name Beery. When I drank it I was like it's really like Beery. It was just. It was incredible. It's one of it might be the best lager I've ever drank. And instantly I was like where can I get this? And I was like, oh no, I can't. I physically can't. Even if I want to pay hundreds and hundreds of pounds in postage, I physically can't get it. Like it's just not doable. It was ridiculous. That's in america, no, from japan. This one was.
Speaker 3:But I mean, oh yeah, I see that it's interesting because I know the asahi dry zero is over here, which is actually pretty yes we've, we've got that and it's yeah, it's okay.
Speaker 2:It's okay, it's one of these. I've had a bottle of that in my fridge for about six months, but I'm like like, yeah, I'll have that one day, like because it's fine, it's good, it's actually, it's actually good, but it's just, it's, it's not new, but I just got this new stuff in, so I'm gonna drink this, but then I find that I kind of some of the beers that I enjoy the most are supermarket beers.
Speaker 2:Now, because it's just a beer that I can just have for myself, like I'll open a can and just I can sit on my sofa and be like I'm just drinking this. I'm not filming a video, I'm not like posting a picture, I'm just drinking this for the sake of having a beer and I don't feel guilty that I'm wasting good liquid by not talking about it online. It's like, oh no, this is just for me. So a shit beer becomes a really good beer, which is, I mean, that's inherently a part of the enjoyment of beer, isn't it? It's like the dopamine release when it's the anticipation of pleasure from when you open the can to when you like, get the aroma before you drink it. It's like I am experiencing pleasure right now. That is what I'm supposed to be experiencing and that is what it's providing. It's yeah, it's a wonderful thing.
Speaker 3:Yeah, dude, you make a great point, because I struggle with this too is that I have tons of beers that I'm like I can't open this because it's a wonderful thing yeah, dude, you make a great point, because I struggle with this too is that I have tons of beers that I'm like I can't open this because it's the only one I have and I know for a fact. If I want to make content about it, I'm gonna be upset that I didn't post it and it's like it's always that where my fridge is just full of like beers that I'm like I have. I actually have two fridges. I have one over here, which my place is a little bit of a mess, but I'm going to show you what I mean. I have a beer fridge just dedicated to the beers that I need for content. And then I have another fridge, my normal fridge, my big fridge, that has all the food and stuff. That's my exact setup.
Speaker 2:I've got the beer fridge and I've got the food fridge and the beers then spill into the beer fridge and I've got the food fridge and the beers then spill into the food fridge and it's like shit, like the top shelf of my food fridge is just beer. But then occasionally, like there's a little box that just like creeps into like next to the lettuce. It's like no one will see, it'll be fine.
Speaker 3:And then I have a. I have a. I have a drawer at the bottom of the big beer fridge that's only like that. One's like only single cans of like stuff that I can't so I have, like it's like weird, I have things that I can't drink in there and things that I can't drink in here and some things I can drink in here and can drink. It's like there's no method to it.
Speaker 2:And then you're just relying on your own memory. It and then you just rely on your own memory. And then I have to separate, like the the beer club beers, because I get sent the beers for the beer club from from wise bartender, so I put those in the in the content fridge in the bottom left hand corner and I hope that those beers aren't going to get cross-contaminated. Or if I get home and like some other beers have been put away and they've been put into the into the content fridge, I'm like no that's not a content beer, that's a.
Speaker 2:I've drank this beer before. It's like what the fuck? Like what? Am I accidentally gonna film a video for Lucky Saint? And be like, oh, what's this? Like my god. But then I am awful, like just today I put a video up for I can't even remember the name of them now Dublin based brewery, and I'd met them at BeerX like two weeks ago Whiplash, whiplash, that's the brewery. And I put a video up today being like, oh, this is a beer I haven't come across before from Whiplash, dublin, et cetera. Did the whole drinky, drinky. Yeah, it's nice. I don't really know what I'm talking about, but you're here anyway, god knows why. And then I got a message from one of the guys from Whiplash. He's like, yeah, we met at BeerX a couple of weeks ago. I was like, fuck, we did.
Speaker 2:I knew that the name Whiplash meant more to me than just a can of beer. But it's like there's just so many beers in my head that like it's just it's weird's weird for how you can retain like you'll see a can. You'll be like, yeah, I had that two years ago. I can remember that one and it's weird that that sticks with you. Like have you ever had any accidental duplicates, or where you've been like? I can't remember if I ever drank this before, or is it similar to you? Do you like recognize them just from sight?
Speaker 3:I'm pretty good at it, but I did have ones where I posted the exact same. Like I posted the same post with a different caption because it was like I had had it in my. My content is a mess, like my. I try as hard as I can to like sort it in different things, but I don't just do any Brewski or any beer club Like I do other content for other brands and shit, so my content's a mess. So I actually posted the same thing twice and then I looked I was like wait, a minute, there's. I swear I posted this before. I looked back a few weeks and it was like crap, it's the same exact picture I had.
Speaker 2:I had a beer once, but I am. It was a limited edition like collab beer with alcohol-free bar and brewery and it was really good. It was like a fruity, like hibiscus sour, and I filmed it, drank it, really loved it, and then let it go into the ether, kept it on my phone in my little edited folder on my phone, went to post it like a couple of months later, thinking oh, I should put that out. Couldn't find the video for the life of me. I was like where the fuck has this video gone? I definitely filmed it.
Speaker 2:I really wanted to talk about it because the bar were pretty cool. I really liked what they were doing, so I imported a can of it from Europe for the cost of fortune to film a video again. Two weeks later I found the old video and was like and the old video was better than the new one I did, it was just like cool, cool, like fantastic. Like they weren't even making the beer by the time that this had all finished. It was just fucking ridiculous. But that's the problem with limited edition beers like you've got, you've got to keep up with them. Like, because a lot of these things are limited edition and it's I don't know if you guys have that if it's more limited edition than core range and it's kind of catching what you can.
Speaker 3:It's a mix. I mean, the limited editions are really nice, but that's the thing also, like, I don't, I don't know it's. There's very I don't know, it's both. I did have a similar experience where actually this just happened because I transfer, because the iPhone doesn't have a lot of storage, I transferred everything over to Google Photos and then I would delete everything off. The main thing. One of the videos didn't. It was literally for a collaboration. It's actually called Draft Top. I don't know if you've heard of it. This is going to be the ad for Draft Top right now.
Speaker 3:Um, it's just, it's this uh device, yes, yes, yeah, you take the can on, the top of the can off and basically, like, I filmed the video and I had it all ready to edit and everything and I just lost it. It was just gone. So I d, I dm them and I was like screwed up. So I'm gonna film another video and we're gonna collaborate this saturday on it, because I've been using draft top for years. Actually, I actually used, I had the old ones. I have like four different kinds, um, and they released the new one, so which, which, like also takes the top off for you, not just, like you know, like open. So usually, since this is an open can already, it's very it's actually kind of hard to get the top off with it, but like a non-open can, this one just lifts it right off.
Speaker 2:Yeah yeah, well, you've got more density, haven't you? In a yeah, in a full, can it's like, but it's pretty cool.
Speaker 3:I use it to make candles, like I'll take the top off and get a candle out of it, but you'll see that in the video.
Speaker 2:Saturday I will keep my eyes peeled. We've been going for like nearly an hour and we haven't mentioned which is awful any fucking breweries that are in the states, which is, I mean it's. It's a sin, really. So who should people be looking out for if they are in the states or if they're planning on visiting anytime soon? Who are you going to make me jealous with?
Speaker 3:well, honestly, one of my favorite brands the brands that I actually represent is called go brewing and I love them. Not only their core range is fantastic, they have that was pull out some of these beers here like their core range versus the pilsner. I mean, look at that, can right, that's so cool. It's like an astronaut. Their street cred, which is like pretty cool. The porter, tropical excuse me, tropical ipa their canons awesome, that's their core range. Well, this one's technically not core but but then they also release these limiteds, like this one, the banana pancake porter yes, I've seen that online and I'm like unreal, like you guys for having that it's when I tell you this is an unreal beer like this is.
Speaker 3:They put like so much banana and maple syrup in this. It's incredible. Or like their irish red, like I love this. Can um stuff like this, like I think go is probably the best, one of the best on the market, one of the most consistent um. You also have like mash think go is probably the best, one of the best on the market, one of the most consistent um. You also have like mash gang over here. I mean you guys have mash gang. Thank you for that, by the way. Um, you're welcome sending them over here. Um. And then, uh, best day which I have on and I'm also drinking nice. Their kosh is probably my favorite non-alcoholic be on the market. Not for I mean, it's just, it's just, it's super beer-y. I mean I love Kolsch. It's got a lot of flavor and it's simple and it doesn't. It's not, you know, 55 calories. There's nothing like crazy about it and that's like the perfect. That's the point.
Speaker 2:I can drink it whenever I think Best Day have already nailed their whole brand identity as well. They were possibly the first brewery that I found based off an Instagram ad, really, and I was like, oh, these guys, this looks really cool, I want this. Clicked through, clicked through and it was like, ah, america, great. But I don't know. Just something about the Cannes artwork it's just so pleasant. The aesthetic is really lovely.
Speaker 3:You know that's. The funny part is that I saw this at the supermarket a lot for a long time and I never got it because I didn't like the can art. I was like comparatively to things like Go go brewing or like or like well-being, which is also their. Their amber is fantastic. This is one of the best beers on the market, you know.
Speaker 2:Compared to this stuff like it's boring right, I just think it's clean and lovely I love how soft the, the, whatever.
Speaker 3:You know I'm actually colorblind, so I I think this is orange, um, the orange like it. This feels super soft to the eye. So I do love that Um. But like I think I saw like the West coast on there or whatever and it just didn't appeal to me. But then they actually reached out to me and we're like hey, we want to send you some stuff. And I was like, yeah, let's do it. And then it's quickly became one of my favorite breweries and I like that. They're limited, like this Galaxy Ripple, probably one of the best IPAs I've ever had in my life, non-alcoholic or alcoholic. It's like a beautiful. You know I love it. So you know, definitely I mean the well-being I don't love. I tried their Victory Wheat. I didn't love it. It has electrolytes in it. I know a lot of people like it. But I mean Athletic, I don't. Their core lineup's all right and it's good, but they have some really, really good pilot stuff.
Speaker 2:Mm-hmm.
Speaker 3:Like the triple hopped IPA, which is pretty good. They have They've had like a Marion fruit, Marion berry one that's really good.
Speaker 2:I've had the belt. I've sent a black IPA by Athletic once. Yeah, I didn't think I could, I think that was a pilot one that was good, but very out of date when I drank it.
Speaker 3:Honestly, I've had a lot of out of date non-alcoholic beers and most of them are fine. They're just a little, a little not. They don't taste like they're originally supposed to taste, but like they've never hurt me, they don't taste like super off. I've had a couple that maybe it was just like all right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I gotta dump this, but most of the time it's actually pretty, it's not bad yeah, it's like if the can explodes and then your hand smells like a brewery afterwards, then kind of leave that alone. That's my kind of rule. But I've been I wasn't even checking sell by dates for the first like two years. I've only started to check recently, just out of interest, I think. I do think that pasteurization should be labeled, just so that people can make conscious choices me too, I agree. I had a brand and I won't mention their name because they're very fresh and they're learning. But I had a brand send me beer not long ago and it took me ages to get. Like is it pasteurized out of them? I need to know, because I need to know if I need to put this in the fridge or if I need to put it like in the cupboard with all of the other like packages I've got, um, it's like.
Speaker 2:I think that it's like the education around it because a lot of people don't know anything about like why pasteurization is important. With alcohol free, I don't think it's essential. You know, mash gang didn't pasteurize for years, um, and the liquid was fine. But I think it's something that people can make informed decisions when they know.
Speaker 3:You know so but I have many bad beers yeah, it's clean I agree with the. Uh, this is just great. Liquid here smells banana. Yeah, I, I mean, I agree it should be, there should be. I mean there should be more pasteurization, but I actually understand it's expensive. When I went to go last week flew out to to Chicago and their pasteurization machines are insane.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like I was at BRX in Liverpool where I met the Dublin people that I then forgot about, and like just walking around like the pasteurization units, but this is like Christmas. Yeah, that is that just looks delicious.
Speaker 3:There's your, there's your thumbnail.
Speaker 2:You crying yeah, the amount of it's. The worst thing about being on on the internet is seeing beers that are like I wish that was here, like there's um one drop in australia as well, they do some insane beers. I've had one of their beers. It was a collab with with trent at mash gang, australia and he sent me all of their beers. It was a collab with with trent at mash gang, australia and he sent me all of their beers and one of them was a one drop collab.
Speaker 2:It was a biscotti stout and it was just like it was so good. But do you get that with any beers like in the uk? Are there any that you're like shit?
Speaker 3:I wish that was here I mean a lot of the mash gang ones. You know we only have a few that are. You know I don't know what their thought process is, but I know a lot of stuff doesn't sell here so they're like current lineup. I mean they have.
Speaker 3:They have that like chocolate strawberry stout and they have the cherry chocolate yeah, the cherry, the cherry chocolate, uh, and then you know, but but when I, when what's it called bendisi on bottle shop in chicago, she used to get them imported, the mash gang stuff, and that was like you know, you got the like mango, marshmallow, moon milk and like yeah, yeah stuff like that and like there was just a bunch of different stuff that was like.
Speaker 3:You know, I wish they could make more of that stuff here, but I understand it doesn't sell right now. But I also do get, I mean, the under 0.5 shop I guess they're swedish, maybe they are netherlands, netherlands uh, and like there's a lot of stuff they put on there is like like that looks incredible. Uh, pretty much like I'm a huge lover of desserts, like beers, like dessert stouts and stuff like that. I mean that's why I love this one so much. I mean they're typically more, you know, higher calories. I think this one's like 150 calories not the calories is everything, but like it does sit in your stomach a little heavier, but a lot of those like crazy beers I just like that's. That's also what I miss about alcohol craft beers, because you saw a lot more of that. You saw people trying to take risks. This can that. I have that I bought. That's a candle, it was a New England IPA green beer, it was a like Froot Loops or something.
Speaker 2:You have these crazy concoctions and stuff which I like that the craft the non-alcoholic industry is is starting to embrace more of those options because I think that's what I loved about mash gang, like when they started doing that sort of crazy shit, like the breakfast cereal range that they did. It's just like this is this is wild. I didn't think this would ever exist. And weirdly like I'm because obviously things have changed a little bit for the guys at mashgang since the acquisition and now it's like right, we're building a really solid core range so we do have kind of your staple beers that are really good. But I can't wait to see some more weird and wonderful shit that comes out from mash gang hq soon hopefully, because some of the best beers I ever had have been these super limited, like sub box, exclusive mash gang beers.
Speaker 2:But we're essentially just jaws just pissing around and it's just mad how one guy like that can just change the entire industry. Yeah, there was a period over here where you couldn't pick up a can of alcohol free beer from anywhere and not see MASH Gang on the can somewhere, because he would just give people his recipes. Basically Just be like yeah, do it like this, yeah, do it like this. And it's like everyone is just using that shit now. It's mad. It's mad. I can't think of anyone that deserves to have done so well from it, more to be honest from those guys, yeah 100.
Speaker 3:You also did a collab beer with a brewery right. Like how did that come about? And like did you feel I've always wanted to do something like that and like, but I just feel like, like, how did that? How did you do that?
Speaker 2:so I I just straight up started like saying to people online like, oh, we should do a collab beer, but kind of taking the piss out of them. Um, like I'd just go out and design the can art for what our beer would look like and it's like, look at this, yeah, that'd be cool. And then when they'd see, when they'd tag them in the stories, I'd then like write a little message to them. Just you know the eye emojis, and just I've got no response. And then my mate, sam sam ray, from we can be friends, they, they make I think they are making the best beer in the uk at the moment, the cola being not included in that, because that would be, that would be bias.
Speaker 2:But I was kind of talking to him and I was like I just want my name on a can just for ego's sake, because it'd be fucking awesome, like yeah and as, like a, as a recovering alcoholic because you know I'm always recovering, never recovered um, like just to then be like I've got my name on a beer and I've done that through sobriety. That's pretty fucking cool. Like I like that and I really liked that kind of idea. Um, and he was just like, yeah, I've got I've got a beer going into tank soon. Do you want to jump on it? I was like, fuck, yeah, that'd be awesome. I was like I've got nothing to offer, but I can come and be annoying. So, yeah, let's do that. And, um, it was going to be a lager initially, but that failed in the tank, which was devastating, I'd say it failed. It came out at like 1%.
Speaker 2:And it was like can't really release a 1% beer with you on it, can we? I was like it would be quite fucking funny Put out a beer that I'm not going to drink. But it affected the taste of it as well because it was a lager. So with lagers you can't really hide behind shit. You can't just dry hop it to make it better.
Speaker 2:But yeah, it's just me nagging people and then someone taking pity on me is how that happened. As has been the case with most things I've done. To be honest, it's just been me being like hey, it's basically just me sending people the question mark emoji in the middle of the night. Do you know what I mean? Some people seem to be game. Like you said at the start, we got into it at a good time Like I think we're very fortunate to have got into it when we did and to have been able to watch it grow and to be a part of it growing. Because you know I think in your case you most certainly are the things that you do for the industry. It's undeniable that you have impacted people, be that breweries, be that you know distributors, be that beer festivals or people online. I think what you're doing is really important, and I commend you for it and hope that you continue to do so.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean, that's the plan. Yeah, it's cool, and and I you know what you said it's it's a lot of people always saying, like, how did you do that? How did you get to this festival? How did you get to? How did they invite you out to the brewery or whatever Stuff like that? It's just because jumped on the opportunity. You know what I mean.
Speaker 3:Like opportunities, I'm a big believer that. You know, if the, if there's an opportunity that's presented to you and it like fits with what you're doing, do it and then that'll just create more opportunities for you. Like you know, I hate flying. Flying is like one of my least favorite things in the world. But to get out to the conference last week, I needed to fly alone, by myself for the first time. So I was.
Speaker 3:You know, I told myself I just kind of do it because I need to meet people at the conference and make more connections, to have more opportunities. So it's just like one of those things you just got to like, be willing to do it, have the you know, have the ability to do it, have the time, have the energy, have the passion, and it's like it'll come if you just make the opportunities happen. You know you, you're gonna get no's. The worst thing that's gonna happen is they're gonna say, no, I don't want to send that beer, or no, we're gonna pass on this opportunity, or you know, whatever it may be, but you just just keep keep doing it, keep trying.
Speaker 2:Really, it's a mantra to live by. Thank you very much for coming and having this chat. It's been. It's been a pleasure to catch up properly and to have you on on the podcast. It's nice to talk to people from across the globe with shared interests. It's um, it makes sobriety not seem so fucking lonely absolutely.
Speaker 3:Yeah, thanks for having me. I appreciate it.
Speaker 1:Good talking to you, as always thank you for listening to this week's episode of the sober boozers club podcast. My name is ben gibbs. You can find me on all the socials at Sober Boozers Club.
Speaker 2:If you're interested in the American world of alcohol-free beer, you should definitely go and follow NA Brewski, because he's going to be way more educated than I am, as he's probably just proven.
Speaker 1:So yeah, you go, do that, and I will catch you very soon.